We were told not to try to speak to Ben Gurion, but when I saw him, I asked why, since Israel is a democracy with a parliament, does it not have a constitution? Ben Gurion said, “Look, boy”-I was 24 at the time-“if we have a constitution, we have to write in it the border of our country. And this is not our border, my dear.” I asked, “Then where is the border?” He said, “Wherever the Sahal will come, this is the border.” Sahal is the Israeli army. Article by Naim Giladi, author of Ben Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews, http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/Propaganda/false_flag_attacks/false_flag_attacks_on_jews_in_iraq.htm

…and fact is that people DO belong to those cliches and, in some cases the cliches are up to no good and that should be exposed and, if necessary, condemned.

Liat Nigar

You make valid points with one exception.
The narrative peddled by the Arab lobby against Israel is far from being brilliant in substance. While we have seen some improvements in their presentation forms, the substance is tragically incongruous, tendentioius, intellectually a torrent of fallacies. The “mere” reality that it has a dregree of acceptance beyond its ethical and substntive merrits has to do more with the willingness of a greater audience to accept any criticism of Israel and Jews in general. The effects of anti Israel propaganda are almost exclusively dependant on the pervasive anti Semitism that precludes those with the said disposition to accept ANY counter argument, ergo the Israeli narrative.
You and Norman above are, subsequently absolutely right to follow the rationale that the approach so far adopted by the Jewish camp in the dialectics with the mentioned anti Israel/anti Semites, must undertake drastic suitable changes. It is a given that the deficient positing of the Pappe counter-stance- as posted by ABC on Qanda -, Irving Wallach revealed , on one hand, the ineptitude, by constant omission, of the so called leaders of our local community to present not just a credible support voice for Israel in major public fora, such as ANY TV venue – except for max 10 second occasional interludes on News bulletins -, but , also, their refusal to engage with their own community in any kind of serious deiscussions about the dismal state of what is known as “hasbara”, a term that, sadly, has become devoid of any tangible meaning.

On occasions I do engage in discussions with certain leaders only to constantly witness that, once I get more serious about their shortcommings, they bolt suddenly and permanently. Proof : how many, if any, are seen here on this important and highly active forum discussing, not just posting their views and close the book, with sincerity and modesty the vast raft of issues posted daily !!!
NOT ONE !!!!

For example, the present President of the Palestinian Authority Mahmud Abbas AKSA Abu Mazen Chargesd that the Arab States Are the Cause of the Palestinian Refugee Problem” (Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003):
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote an article in March 1976 in Falastin al-Thawra, the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: “The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionists, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.”

In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call
by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is
we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave. We have accustomed them to begging…we have participated in lowering their morale and social level…Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children…all this in the service of political purposes…” — Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972
memoirs, published in 1973.

“The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages
were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress
of war.” — General John Glubb “Pasha,” The London Daily Mail,
August 12, 1948. He was the British commander of the Jordanian Army in 1948
“The most potent factor [in the flight of the Arabs] was the
announcements made over the air by the Arab-Palestinian Higher
Executive, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit… It was clearly intimated
that Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection
would be regarded as renegades.” — London Economist October 2,
1948.
“The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha,
assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel
Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade…Brotherly advice
was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and
property to stay temporarily In neighboring fraternal states, lest the
guns of invading Arab armies mow them down.” –Al Hoda, a New
York-based Lebanese daily, June 8, 1951.

“The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but
by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite
them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages
it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of
rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities
in order to inflame the Arabs … By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities,
killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror
in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their
homes and properties to the enemy.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper
Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
Edward Atiyah, secretary of the Arab League office in London, wrote:
“The wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the
Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic press and the irresponsible
utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only
a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies
of the Arab states, and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and
re-take possession of their country”. — Edward Atiyah (Secretary of
the Arab League, London, The Arabs, 1955, p. 183)

“As early as the first months of 1948, the Arab League issued
orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring
countries, later to return to their abodes … and obtain their share
of abandoned Jewish property.” — Bulletin of The Research Group for
European Migration Problems, 1957.

This is only a small sample of examples which Irving Wallach could have cited. It only needed a bit of research. The claim by Pappe of the dispossessing by Jews of the Palestinian Arabs is his normal charges at conferences and speeches and it should have been foreseen and appropriate research and the material found.
Further, Irving Wallach did not challenge the allusion that Israel was similar to South Africa before the 90′s libel. He also let that slip by, only citing some aboriginal people stating that they felt close to the Jews because of their history. I don’t know what that had to do with anything. Except that Ms Moore, who was on the debating team reminded the audience that the white Europeans had dispossessed the aboriginals of the land of Australia.
Fortunately, Gregg Sheridan did do some research into Ilan Pappe’s writings and he properly explained that many historians, including those who are unfriendly to Israel have widely criticized Ilan Pappe’s methods and view of history. Gregg was very positive about Israel during the debate.

All in all a good chance of discrediting Pappe’s assertions was lost.

I disagree. MR Wallach did a great job. I wish people in our community would not condemn people based on cliches, eg. left and right wing leanings, but look at the facts.

Sorry Emily, but the quote of the “nailing” by Wallach carries as much power as a flat tyre carting a brown pooch to the Opera House.

I have made the comment before in other forums on J-Wire, and elsewhere, that we need Jewish leaders and spokespeople at the ready who can present Jewish historical facts with acuity, passion and eloquence, and be relentless in that presentation. As a writer I know the importance of narrative. We learn much from narrative, for that’s where the heart of things is exposed. We also need to push a Jewish narrative (narrative is not necessarily fiction – even a novel has underlying elements that are not fiction) for the world to see. The Arab peoples do this brilliantly, indeed they do it so well that fact and fiction merge and/or fiction is parroted so often and so well, that it becomes fact. I’m not suggesting we as Jews adopt the latter, but I am suggesting we need our rich narratives to be available to all. If we do not address this situation effectively, and instead continue to ‘defend’ formally and politely, and never attack with specifically appropriate words, then we are doomed to be regarded in stereotypical fashion as well as misconceived due to the harbingers of lies by those of the ilk of Pappe.

I am fascinated, as well as horrified, by the likes of Ilan Pappe. What makes them what they are? How does hatred and contempt for their own kind and their own history form itself? How can anyone, historian or other, be comfortable with basing a whole ideology on lies and distortion? Is it, perhaps, just a case of the attraction of professional glamour and notoriety that attends such perversion? It would be more than interesting to know. In the meantime, however, Pappe and others are doing great damage to the Jewish people and the State of Israel.