Ben David

The right of Jews to live in the West Bank to reconstitute the Jewish National Home there is enshrined in article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the UN Charter.

Jews actually were doing just that until they were driven out in the 1948 War and not allowed to return by the occupying power – Jordan.

Their return after the 1967 War was undertaken in accord with the above mentioned law.

The last internationally recognized sovereign occupier was Great Britain.

The West Bank is currently no mans land under no one’s sovereignty.

Israel’s is entitled to claim sovereignty in all or part of the West Bank pursuant to the rights vested in the Jewish people under the Mandate and the UN Charter – once the Oslo Accords and the Bush Roadmap have been finally declared dead and buried.

Hello Mr Winter

Another piece of Zionist hasbara fantasy. The 1967 Israeli cabinet offer was for peace with Egypt and Syria along established borders and meeting Israel’s “security needs. This is another specious untruth peddled along side Barak’s “generous offer” to justify continued occupation.

History will judge the decisions of the Palestinians in 1948 1967 2000 2001 and 2008. However, whether it judges them harshly or not, this has no relevance at all to the question of whether settlements should have expanded or not. This question is a completely separate issue and it is illogical to see them as connected, or as Paul says “The Arabs must learn that there is a price to pay for aggression and arrogance”. There is simply no principle of int law that gives Isr the right to expand because of any rejection by the Pals. It can of course under Int law place its military in the WB to defend itself but any “aggression and arrogance” of the Pals does not give Isr the right to annex and expand its territory as it has been doing since 1967.

Nr. 2 – Can we all agree that the palestinian politcal entity is a badly fragmented one to the point of not being a reliable structure. Economically palestinians do not exist, yet look at today’s Gaza ! Perhaps the most rapid development site in the world. Where is the mezuma coming from !! I’ll tell you where from:
From the smartest scheme in milking almost an entire Globe. They are successful and dynamic parasites and why would they change it !!!
Same goes for the palestinian political class. Proffessional international victims and eac one of them leads a life of luxury and fun. Fun at the credulous imbeciles who finance them and also fun at watching even we, little Yids, commenting, arguing, debating moral points. The populace inside the criminal enclaves they call now palestine have been conditioned to perpetuate thi system for they too are parasites, no work BY CHOICE, no schooling BY CHOICE, yet heaps on the out on the streets brandishing all kind of symbolic drek pretending that they have a CAUSE !!
Who cares what a Ben E says, harking back constantly to bloody UN resos, 1948, 1947 then back to 1922 as if anyone on the streets of Ramala gives a drek about it.
Abbas and his happy parasites have no intention to enter any negotiations because that would mean certain possible conditions that would change their comfy status, just in case the flow of funds may be conditioned by some degree of observance of what would be “agreed” upon at the end of the negotiations non-event.
Meanwhile Paul and Gill I enjoy tremendously your stuff, emes !! David you ar safely up there too as the chief alfa stirrer.

otto in Bucharest ( still )

David,

You say in talking about Abdullah that “He would be an Arab hero if he was able to secure the return of the major part of the West Bank into Arab hands once again”.

The Arab world does not want the major part of the West Bank.
They want everything including every centimetre of Israel.

They make ludicrous claims to ensure this conflict goes on and on. They realise that for Israel to accept their terms would mean commiting suicide. So they continue with the propaganda in order that their people can be fixated on something to hate and that something is Israel. Peace would divert attention to the sorry lives of those living under Arab regimes and the Arab world will therefore not even tolerate this thought.

The only peace they seek with Israel is the peace of the grave.
You make the claim that I have no proposal for a peaceful resolution of this conflict.

In my mind there is no strictly “peaceful” resolution, just resolution which I’ve already outlined above and will repeat for your benefit.
“Israel has only one option to end this festering boil and that is to walk away from this so called ‘peace process’ and to take unilateral action on borders”

Your legal argument against this would no doubt be that the world would not recognise any unilateral move by Israel. Well the world does not recognise anything Israel does, so what’s new?

David, you have to forget about the political landscape of decades ago.
The Muslim Brotherhood are now in charge in Egypt.
Iran dictates what goes on in Gaza and the West Bank.
Iran dictates what Hesbollah does or does not do in Lebanon.

The possibilities of what could have been negotiated decades ago has long gone.
Israel is not conducting negotiations with Australia or NZ.
It is trying to conductuct negotiations with people whose signature is not worth the paper it is written on. The “Palestinians” will not honour anything they sign and have no problem tearing up any agreement, knowing full well that the Western world will not hold them to account for any breaches they may make.

Gil

So you have no proposal to try to progress a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

You may well be right about Abdullah being bumped off.

However Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel is in its 19th year and Abdullah has survived. He would be an Arab hero if he was able to secure the return of the major part of the West Bank into Arab hands once again.

The Hashemites have for 90 years preserved for the Arabs 77% of the land promised to the Jews for their national home. No mean feat that few people realise.

In contrast the PLO and Hamas have been complete disasters.bringing nothing but suffering to the constituencies they supposedly represent.

There seems to me no other path to tread now.

Whether it succeeds depends on Israel and Jordan.

Hi David,

I thought I made my solution abundantly clear in the 3rd and 2nd last paragraphs of my above reply.

The possibilities of what could have happenned over 40 years ago in respect to a peaceful solution have long gone.

In my opinion, if the Jordanian monarch tried to do anything constructive towards a genuine peace, I’m sure he would be assassinated, just as was Anwar Sadat. Even more so now that the Muslim Brotherhood controls Egypt and Hamas controls Gaza. Fatah, which was supposed to be “moderate” has been radicalised to the point that I see no difference between that organisation and Hamas. They are one and the same by every standard that counts.

In the next round of hostilities which will happen as sure as night follows day, the gloves should come off, the IAF unleashed with no targets off limits, no more warnings and of course the absurdity of supplying the Palestinians with electricity from the Israeli grid especially during a war has to cease. If the Palestinians want to continue their bomb making activities, then they should by all means be allowed to do so in tunnels and by candlelight.

benE

Rami has referred to IsraeI’s offers in 2001 and 2008 – when it was prepared to cede its claims to more than 90% of the West Bank .

The PLO want 100% – not one sq metre less and all the Jews kicked out.

Perhaps you might like to answer this question – why are 500000 Jews living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem an obstacle to peace when 1.4 million Moslems living in Israel are not?

Your remark that the offer to release fifty long term convicted Jewish murderers as a “cosmetic gesture” as a condition of getting the “President of Palestine” to just come and sit down at a table and talk peace is offensive and shameful.

Gil – The two state solution – Israel and Jordan – was not a legal fantasy land between 1948-1967.

It existed and indeed the West Bank was unified with Transjordan in 1950 to form a new territorial entity renamed Jordan.

Had Jordan not entered the Six Day War – ignoring Israel’s plea that it keep out of that War – then one could fairly speculate that it would have been the two-state solution in place today – with not one Jew living there..

Jordan and Israel have a signed peace treaty – something that has not happened with the PLO and Israel since the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993.

If there is to be any hope of progress towards peacefully ending the Jewish-Arab conflict – then a return to the position existing at 5 June 1967 – in so far as is now possible taking into account the present facts on the ground – seems to me to be the only way forward.

Such a solution involves drawing the existing border between Israel and Jordan.

Is that such an impossible solution to achieve?

Alternatively – what is your solution?

It was just announced that no new building has been allowed in the eastern part of Israel’s capital; that is, in effect, a building freeze. Netanyahu is a hopeless dill to offer the Arabs anything. If they want to get anything they need to talk and make compromises. The present situation where they demand and back those demands with violence must be stopped by a new Israeli leadership that is prepared to get off its knees.

In returning Gaza to the then PA, and in returning Sinai Israel has made more than enough territorial compromises that the hypocritical iinternational community called for. If the Arabs won’t talk, Israel must take.

Negotiations have failed and Israel must take unilateral action. The Israel/Jordan takeover of the talks again pushed by David is a non starter. Abdullah is in no position to digress from the uncompromising mohammedan line.

Israel must make plans to take control of Judea and Samaria as proposed by Ephraim Karsh. The Arabs can have self-government if 7 cities where 95% of them live. And they should not be subsidised; they must no longer get water and electricity for free. Israel must also return to Gaza and clean it out before it becomes self-governing again.

Israel must make sure that the Arabs in their cities behave or conditions are created where emigratrion is the only option. Finally Israel must make plans to denaturalise any citizen who is an enemy, Jew or Arab. Israel cannot tolerate a situation where Jews are unsafe on the roads, where Bedouin steal land and where, as Feiglin just revealed, the 20% of Israeli Arabs commit 70% of the murders and murder attempts. The Arabs must shape up or ship out, from Israel as well as from other Western countries,including Australia.