Comments on: Palestine: Kerry Commits Harakiri…writes David Singer

By: Otto Waldmann

Otto Waldmann — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:19:17 +0000

In reply to david.

Dear David

not only are you absolutely right , but what I have already stated already a few times here, on J-Wire is exactly what you pointed out. I will also add that all those murderers shall be embraced with “gratitude” (!!!) within the hearts of their communities and elevated to hero status, more so, best qualifid to become useful leaders of their communities, precisely the same ccommunities represented at these talks by their supporters cum recognised political leaders.
Within these circumstances can we really depend on a “peace” …loving, a peace desire, a peace knowledge, a peace dependability people !!!!
The mere details that these cabotins of farcical parades have acquired a modicum of rhetoric instilled into their minute brains by the desire to deceive, a political correctness conceived to perform nothing but choreographies of lies and inner derision of all that decent people expect of civilised behaviour, shall not change one yota what we have learnt long ago about genuine palestinian identities, i.e. :

– verbally cannot be trusted
– in written text cannot be trusted
– in charades of diplomatic danses cannot be trusted
– in spirit cannot be trusted
– in truth cannot be trusted
– in jails CAN be trusted

…so, let’s observe how these talks shall unfold………………….

By: david

david — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:35:03 +0000

In reply to Otto Waldmann.

Otto

The 104 that you refer to as “bastards’, “terrorists” and “criminals” are “Murderers” and should be referred to as such whenever you choose to write about them.

These murderers will soon join a society in the West Bank and Gaza that has a lot more similar murderers deliberately and indiscriminately targeting men, women and children – Jews , Arabs and others – walking around being treated as heroes and receiving monthly stipends from an unelected, unrepentant and holocaust denying Mahmoud Abbas – whilst he is wined and dined in world capitals and praised by Jew-haters wherever he goes as he adamantly refuses to have one Jew living in his country-in waiting..

All this in the name of peace?

These murderers and Jew haters could have had what they demand now – and more – in 1937, 1947 and between 1948-1967, without committing the heinous murders they carried out.

If crime does pay – then the world will truly be stood on its head for its gross stupidity and abandonment of the Judeo-Christian heritage bequeathed to it.

By: Otto Waldmann

Otto Waldmann — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:37:10 +0000

In reply to Otto Waldmann.

inevitable typos:
para #2 : read “…..Jewish/Israel.” and “….otherwise Israel would not be there (has vsholem ). “

By: Otto Waldmann

Otto Waldmann — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:51:31 +0000

In reply to David.

David

my emphasis and I emphasise on emphasis is away from history, while keeping all important dates as reflex determinants. Otherwise I would go back to Moishe Rabeinu, to be sure !
What I have always said was that at vthe tachles stage, dates and dots of hostorical significance are subliminally relevant, not, as instructed, explicily necessary. Of course events seminal in Jewish?Israel history are THERE, otherwise Israel would be be THERE ( has vsholem ! ).
At the same time, unlike Liat, with whom I am always in concordance anyway, but who this time proves a tad too cynical, I reckon that this “Kerry initiative” if you want is necessary because it will evince precisely what Bibi stressed directly and otherwise. That is the evident reality that the Middle East has changed its spots considerably since the last similar get-together. Based on the realities we all know, Israel has reached a position of such geo=political authority, that NO possible detraction from a comprehensive Israel-safe outcome could be implemented. The new condition ( actually precondition ) of going to a plebiscite, guarantees that a palestinian type outcome is out of the question.
So, erasing history from my analytical precondition is out of the question, meaning that you are far from being redundant, G-d forbid, more so, all your considerate analytical inroads offer ideal terrain for anyone who is worth any amount of intellectual salt – if I could dispense for once with modesty -.
I must repeat that this Washington encounter shall demonstrate that Israel’s case is solid not only on strategical considerations on the ground – a very vane claim on its own -, but that the opposite camp has very little meat on the bone and, as we shall observe, no doubt, the pro Palestininan propaganda rattle surounding the process, shall have no relevance within the four walls of the strict talks. We shall see, accordingly, a massive propaganda onslaught from all quarters dedicated to the Palestinian cause all without any effective reverberations where tachles shall unfold. Considering that Obama has received already his Peace Nobel Prize and another set of Bibi-Mahmoud is not likely to happen, the spectacle that has just started in Washington DC promisses to develop into a major fizzle. Concurently, Eretz Zion shall continue to prosper, toda LaEil !!
Yes, to this extent the Liat wall of redundancy is valid, but, with due respect , I reckon that Mr. Kerry knows it as well. Additionally, why do you people think that Israel had no objection to having objectionable Mr. Indyk involved in this spectacle !!

…more to follow….

To be fussy with terms, I hate the notion of anti-historicity, but right here and now, it has some currency.

By: Otto Waldmann

Otto Waldmann — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:42:51 +0000

Almost everybody – so far, actually, everybody – seems unimpressed with Kerry, US foreign policies, the palestinians are not given any space in this political charade and, so far here, nobody is that broyges with Bibi, except for the very annoying gesture of the 104 bastards being released.
On this segment of terrorists being let out, how about this :
These talks/negotiations are predicated on expected concessions made by each party, so that a modicum of negotiations will be achieved. Of the parties involved, the palestinians are generally seen as the most “affeceted”, “persecuted” party. THeir claims portofolio has been built – farcicallyof course – to create an edifice of apex claims, expressed by a lot more entities as a “justified” log of “injustices” at the hands of the “oppressive”, much stronger, Israelis.
In essence the palestinians are fighting for land, “existential space” if you want. People are their means, their tools in the said geoclaims.
Israel has reached the political ( and tangible strategic ) maturity of NOT contemplating any geo concessions beyond what we see NOW, being Gaza, A and B zones and, within them the Zionist established entities some call “settlements”, I call them genuine Jewish lands, organically part of the Jewish State, Jewish Identity.
By releasing perishable quantities Israel has made THE concession It is willing to advance. Beyond this gesture I hope – and in fact it is realistically expected – we shall not see any other free gifts offered by the Iraeli negotiating tam.
What is left on the table as far as the Livni team are all the necessary preconditions for the acceptance of a viable palestinian statal entity, viable ONLY as far as the known Israeli existential conditions are satisfied.
One can say that, by releasing proven criminals within the palestinian fold, Israel can state with irrevocable evidence, that at least 104 known criminals are part of a palestinian society, one society which is itself predicated on a dedicated existence of seemingly UNended enmity towards the State of Israel. How, then, can Israel accept that such an entity can be trusted as a safe neighbour of the genine statal kind. How can Israel contemplate NOT manintaing its necessary control – some idiots call it “occupation” – over such a predictable menace, Hamas as such not even mentioned yet in this complexity !!! The de-carcerated bastards may well take up their activities where they left at the time of in-carceration and, Israel being as astute as always, shall treat them accordingly, most likely NOT placing them back at Israel’s expence in the luxury of square meals and square penitenciary justice. Land, however is forever. So, concession Nr. One and Only has been made. The rest are, as they call them, ………..talks.

By: David

David — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:41:58 +0000

In reply to Liat Nagar.

Liat

Spot on – as usual.

By: David

David — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:41:17 +0000

In reply to Otto Waldmann.

Otto

What happened between 1920-1967 is not irrelevant. That is precisely what the Arab propagandists are trying to do by erasing from the public memory the events that occurred during that time – and in your case it certainly seems to have worked.

Imagine then what their campaign has done to others who lack your undoubted intellectual capabilities.

Any settlement to have any chance of succeeding must be based on the historic, geographic, demographic and legal realities that arose in Mandate Palestine after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War 1.

The Jewish- Arab conflict did not start in 1948.

You need to activate your memory bank – not close it down.

By: David

David — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:29:59 +0000

In reply to Paul Winter.

Paul

What is required is the same pressure by Kerry on Jordan and the Arabs of Judea and Samaria as he has been putting on Netanyahu -which could produce an outcome that might just help end the conflict between Jews and Arabs as contrasted to his present course of action which will end up going nowhere.

Turning the clock back to 1967 – so far as is now possible – is the only realistic solution to settling territorial claims by Jews and Arabs in Judea and Samaria.

UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk supports that solution as the best of the bad options available for the Arabs. They and Kerry would do well to listen to this protector of the rights of the Arab residents of Judea and Samaria.

By: Otto Waldmann

Otto Waldmann — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:57:38 +0000

Historically David is spot on.
In terms of future developments we must wait and see.
Fact is that what I predicted so many times, that historical debates on what has been happening in the region since whatever you want, 1922, then ’48, ’56, etc. not to mention Oslo and so many UN numbers, well. all that stuff has been deemed more or less officially as IRRELEVANT.
The only stuff worth remembering is that, as David alludes to, all negotiations and respective hand shakes – why not throw in a few Peace Nobel Prizes – have only helped bring the same partied to , yet, another round of palaver, they call it “talks”.
The most relevant thing to me is that Israel has NO reason to hasten any conclusions, unless all its conditions, bar none, are met.
The best thing about this new round is that anything that may be arrived at will have to receive the majority imprimatur of an Israeli general vote. The other matter that gives me the greatest naches is what Bibi introduced in his introduction, yes, Israel is right new in the BEST position vis a vis the palestinians as well as in the general regional and beyond geopolitical circumstances.
The rest is interesting lecture…………
I wage the bet that after these nine historic months there will NOT be a tangible, implementable conclusion, accord notwithsatnding.
I reckon that Israel needs to see the poalestinian political edifice modified to such an extent that ALL fundamental Israeli requirements – I DID not say demands – will be HAPPILY accpeted by what will then be called still palestininans or whatever.
I also reckon that in the next few decades, if the socio, economical, political decadence of the palestinian “national” perimeter will continue, we shall see massive migration of its populace well outside their current living spaces. That will lead to a populace tired of enduring political strategies at the very expense of their own very depleted living standards.
Time is most definitely, on Israel’s side, savlanut MUST be the guiding spirit for these protracted talks.

By: Liat Nagar

Liat Nagar — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:12:03 +0000

What a waste of time this ongoing game is. If only Kerry, and all and sundry before and present associated with continuing to bang heads against a wall, getting nowhere, would see the situation for what it is, rather than what they wish it to be.