I’ll never forget Abba Eban’s famous comment after the ’67 war:
“I think that this is the first war in history that on the morrow the victors sued for peace and the vanquished called for unconditional surrender.”

Peace is not a process, it is the desired outcome of whatever preceded it be it conflict between people, negotiations between countries, or a family disagreement. Peace in Hebrew is “Shalom”, perfection in Hebrew is “Moushlam” which is derived from it . There is nothing better to experience in life than peace, be it in your country, your community, your neighbour, your spouse, or yourself. That is the outcome we want for the living. The dead are no longer concerned with the events of this world. They are not so much at peace as separated from life.

Secondly, peace is a process, not an outcome, Get that right too, please. I’m not interested in peace as an outcome. It’s on every grave, with equal respect given to whomever lies there. Better than peace, let’s focus on life and completion, completion, shalem of the Promise G-d gave to Abraham, in which merit Moses agreed to lead us out of Egypt. Isn’t it time we got out of golut, when will you understand that time is now, just do it. Call a spade a spade and complete the promise. Start by calling Israel the Promised Land, by its real and true name.

My comment to you was in response to this question posed by you:

“The question is, if as Netanyahu claims, a unified Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel, how can this be so if right smack in the middle there is a piece of real estate that is not 100% under Israeli/Jewish jurisdiction?”

Every capital city of every country throughout the world has pieces of real estate right smack in their middle that is not 100% under their jurisdiction. That does not affect their status as the capital of the country concerned.

Cool down.

I wasn’t going to waste my time responding any further to your 40 year obsession on this, but your final reply urged me to do otherwise.

Your comment below: “Ever heard of the UN Headquarters located in New York or diplomatic embassies located everywhere around the World or Julian Assange holing out in the Ecuadorian Embassy bang smack in the middle of London?” and comparing this to the Temple Mount is absurd.

For the record I will not play your endless games.

Gil
You continue to respond to my criticism of your claims by raising further issues in order to avoid admitting your earlier errors after they have been pointed out to you.

Whilst you continue to so act I do not intend to play that game.

Paul

You state:

(i) “Negotiations have not resulted in anything since you started to write about the Jewish-mohammedan conflict.”

Wrong – negotiations have resulted in Israel signing a peace treaty with Egypt in 1979 and one with Jordan in 1994.

(ii) “They have repeatedly rejected peace and they have broken every treaty they signed. ”

Wrong – not so far as the two above treaties are concerned.

(iii) ” The Jewish-Arab conflict will not be settled by negotiations because no Arab will agree to anything other than eliminating the Jewish homeland in the mohammedan Waqf.”

Wrong again – so far as the above two treaties are concerned.

It is difficult to have a serious conversation when factually wrong and unsubstantiated claims are being constantly aired.

Sorry, David, I must beg to differ. The proof of the error of your approach is the failure of the past two decades of hot air hurricanes and peace further away than ever. Even that hopeless scheming peacenik, Peres, once commented that there can be peace-peace or war-war, but not peace-war, which is all that would-be negotiators like you have achieved.

The Jewish-Arab conflict will not be settled by negotiations because no Arab will agree to anything other than eliminating the Jewish homeland in the mohammedan Waqf. Even if most agree, it would only take one nation of terrorist proxy determined to show that they are prouder, fiercer, more religiously observant, more hating than the others to frustrate negotiations.

Take revolutionary Iran. Their support for the so-called Palestinians is based on traditional Jew-hating, on jihadism and proving the superiority of Shi’a Islam; they will never agree to a Sunni led peace with Israel. Take the Arabs where a tyrant like Saddam Hussein was admired for his manly qualities of cruelty, implacability, lack of mercy of remorse and willingness to go to war. Qatar and Saudi Arabia financing Sunni led jihad would never agree to a peace with Israel, nor would their proxies and never to a peace sponsored by Shi’a. And of course there is Pakistan which would export terrorists to prove its islamic credentials. Perhaps the best example of the impossibility of a negotiated peace is Indonesia which would always side with any mohammedan spoiler against the Jew.

Negotiations have not resulted in anything since you started to write about the Jewish-mohammedan conflict. The only advances that have been made have been through IDF victories on the battle field. The situation could have been better had Israel ignored calls for peace and wiped out enough Arabs to compel them to sue for peace. (And incidentally, the world would be a better place had India not yielded to peace processors and wiped out Pakistan resulting in no moslem nukes and no Talibaan/ISIS funding in Afghanistan).

I accept that you are concerned for Israel. So to is Gil and so too am I. I am not gung-ho, rather I am realistic. We are not dealing with rational, truth-telling, Western, life respecting people. The mohammedan realm displays and understands only one language with its vocabulary of barbarism, hate, revenge and blood letting.

Your problem David is that you are a decent human being and a lawyer. You err in ascribing your values to people who are completely dissimilar to yourself. You also err in your belief that negotiations will result in peace and assume that both parties negotiate in good faith; the mohammedans don’t. Your ego blunts your reality testing.

And on final closing point. The Arabs rejected the 1948 peace plan. They have repeatedly rejected peace and they have broken every treaty they signed. It is pure insanity and antisemitism that the court of world opinion demands that Israel adhere to the terms of every undertaking (even if they misrepresent it) while its purported peace partner is free to serially violate its undertakings. Jews are commanded to seek justice. The world denies justice to the Jewish state, so it has no choice but to command justice for itself and to impose its justice on its vanquished aggressors who have never been made to answer for their lies, back-sliding and viciousness.

My final post on this is that Israel FINALLY had full control and sovereignty after the 1967 victory and that control was squandered by one foolish act of magnanimity by the victor to the vanquished.

Gil

During 400 years of Ottoman rule, 25 years of British Mandate rule and 19 years of Jordanian rule did the Jews have “administrative control” of the Temple Mount?

The UN wanted to internationalize Jerusalem. The Jews agreed at that time.

There is a peace treaty that deals with the issue of Jerusalem and Jews and Arabs will negotiate on Jerusalem in accordance with what was agreed in 1994.

Stop getting carried away and get a grip on yourself.

At least support giving Jordan-Egypt-Israel negotiations a chance and then crow and brag if nothing is achieved.

I cannot understand your wish to bring on a massive backlash of violence and international outcry rather than supporting negotiations with new Arab negotiating partners to replace the thoroughly discredited and racist PLO.