Remember Tony Abbott who was castigated for speaking at a rally at Parliament House when an offensive poster was put up behind him which he didn’t even see?

If you knowingly associate with Jew haters carrying posters and calling out “Free Palestine” and “Free Palestine from the River to the Sea” you cannot escape criticism for not tearing down their banners and telling them to get the hell out of there. If you lie down with dogs you get fleas.

You have also been duped on the right of return.

The Universal Declaration says:

“Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”

“Palestine” was not a country. It was not independent nor did it possess the attributes of sovereignty. It was part of the former territory of the Ottoman Empire captured in the First World War and placed under Mandate to Great Britain.

Had the Arabs accepted the partition plans proposed in 1937 or 1947 – or even accepted Israel’s declaration of independence in 1948 – the situation might have have been different. But they didn’t and went to war to try and get it all.

The right of return is a furphy that has only inflicted untold suffering on the poor refugees who have been kept in refugee camps for decades believing that one day they would return to Haifa and Jaffa.

People like you repeating this nonsense only help to perpetuate the status quo.

Jews came from the Nazi concentration camps and were resettled in Palestine to start their lives anew. The Arab countries could have done the same for the Palestinian Arab refugees instead of letting them rot in camps until today with no human dignity or hope – only increasing hatred for the Jews.

Think again about the rubbish you are posting. It only keeps getting worse.

It is absolutely fair for Jews to build and control a state of their own !!!
In that particular State, called Israel,fundamental state principles of security must prevail,just as with any other state.
Considering the millenia old reality of anti Semitism and contemporary extremely tangible threats to Israel’s security by its Arab neighbours, of whom the so called palestinians are, by far,the greatest element of danger, the necessary composition of the Sate of Israel must rely mainly on those who can ensure Israel’s security. Israel’s Jewish population is the most reliable dmographic element to provide the said security.A larger Arab population in Israel provided by those who reckon that they have the “right” to occupy major Israeli teritory will GUARANTEE a drastic change in the security of the Jewish population of Israel.
Alex Milne talks about “equality” as if the arabs calling themselves palestinians would be some kind of angels deprived of their rights. Either Alex Milne has been dweeling under some rock for the past two thousand years or he reckons that Jews are as stupid as he obviously reckons they are “domineering” and “opressive”,not that such thoughts would make him a traditional subliminal,at least, anti Semite.
Just you wait for the retort ” I am not an anti Semite, far from it,just want a fair deal for everyone etc. etc.”
As we Jews believe in the comming of Messiah, once He will arrive all of Alex Milne’s and his mates’ demands for “fairness” will be granted.
Meanwhile fairness must be applied to the treatement of Hamas and the rest of their “opressed” and homeless artisans of terror.

The BDS campaign calls for equal rights between Palestinians and Jews. The fact that this campaign was instituted by Hamas does not mean that support for the BDS is the same as support for the Hamas charter.

The discrimination over the right of return is one of the most glaring inequalities in Israel/Palestine. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights allows any person the right to return to his or her country of origin. This right is denied to Palestinians. In contrast, the Israeli Law of Return extends the right of return to “a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew”.

Is this fair?

So you agree the Palestinians claim is false and yet you still support their BDS program.

Have you any views on the following clauses in the Charter:

Article 5: The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father – whether inside Palestine or outside it – is also a Palestinian.

Article 6: The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.

Are you still comfortable supporting a BDS campaign instituted by people whose objective is to wipe out Israel and reinstate 1947 Palestine with no equal rights between Arabs and Jews?

I understand that you and others on this site have a very different view to us regarding the Palestinian-Jewish conflict. Perhaps we are wrong, in our support for Palestinians. But we do not hate Jews.

– at the academic level you have failed both in logic and data.
– at the factual political data you failed to consider comprehensive and true,well known facts.

In both cases you extrapolate and abuse reality in a manner I and all those contributing here on behalf of Israel have been exposed to for decades.You do not add anything original and/or rational to the tested and failed palestinian ideology.
These are the only valid “academic” considerations.
You are being decently and politely allowed to exhibit your views not because you’d inspire, in spite of what you may think.
I am not being abruptly dismissive because I have already dismissed your position from your words: ” In my opinion “.

All the Abrahamic faiths have religious ties to Isreal/Palestine, so the Charter’s claim that Jews do not is clearly false. The rest of the Charter sounds quite reasonable to me.

To Otto Waldmann:

You accuse others of employing a pseudo academic approach?!

Forget the mammals, cheese lovers and mice.

Focus on the Palestinian Arabs – who devised the world wide BDS campaign of Jewish goods and services emanating from Israel and the West Bank that you apparently support.

This is what their Charter says:

“Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong. ”

Is this Jew-hatred or not?

Support the BDS if you will. But don’t pretend to be under any illusion about what you are doing and who you are getting into bed with.

1st. – You attribute my argument a false syllogism which in itself contains a non sequitur. All my propositions or premisses are concordant with the respective conclusions. By posing false premisses in your “demonstration” of elementary logic and falsely attributing them to ME, you perform PRECISELY the same dismissably highly prejudiced rhetorical comedy act so transparent in your ideological attack on matters Jewish and Israeli. Let’s make one point clear:

THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ANTI ISRAEL AND ANTI SEMITIC STANCES !!!

Those who reckon that they may escape the CORRECT syllogisms I have presented, and are persuaded into the false areguments in your attempt at compromising a verifyable reality of palestinian extended Israel hate propaganda, suffer from severe debilitating credulity, a condition you and your mates are exploiting cynically and,might I say, doomed to ridicule and, therefore, failure.

Placing as arguments logical demonstration juxtaposed to what YOU would falsely, therefore tendentiously, pretend would be my stances and respective logic is not only dishonest within the generosity of this debate forum, is not only highly abusive of you,but so easily proven disingenious, to the point of saying that you have mutilated your ideological foot by shooting it with rational blanks in such a manner that this is, arguably, the only instance when a blank is actually..loaded.

2nd- This is an exercise in eliciting relevant facts and not one engaged in constructing a “logical” edifice of the ideology of the anti Israel camp, one that has been indulging in a variety of tactics. One of the tactics employed of late has been the pseudo academic approach. A tangible reality of terror,prejudice and persecution definitory of the ENTIRE palestinian society is glossed over by a virtual academic “aula” ( lecture theatre ) type of “elevated”, “elegant” touches of the pretence of some kind of metamorphosis of a palestinian party dancing, in perpetual fact, to the tune of the only music they can produce,the sound of Kassam.
“Polished” clowns,such as Khatib, a revamped Ashrawi, regiments of tendentious and farcical fellow travellers, such as yourself and some other comrades engaged in this forum ( one “hasbaracentral” with acute convulsions of unhappiness excreted upon us )reckon that by ,digressing into home-made contortions of dialectics, could “demonstrate” that Zionism is such a universal malefactor that humanity should expurgate !

And since analogy is your ellected type of “addressing” the issues…directly, my alluding to nazi inherrited anti Semitism in all your approaches, whether you’d be aware of it or not, based on my very solid historical knowledge of the phenomenon, you will have to carry the burden of my “incongruities”.

Judging from the erudite tone of your posts, I am guessing that you are well-versed in the art of philosophy. On this assumption, let’s test the validity of your argument by condensing it into a syllogism.

Simplified for ease of calculation, your argument is as follows:

All BDS supporters are Palestine supporters
Some Palestine supporters are Jew-haters
Therefore all BDS supporters are Jew-haters

You can see that this follows the proper syllogistic form. There are two premises and one conclusion; there are exactly three terms (“BDS supporter”, “Palestine supporter” and “Jew-Hater”), each of which is employed twice in the argument; and finally the middle term (Palestine supporter) appears in both premises. In addition, the syllogism obeys the rules of quantity and quality (apologies to those who have not studied logic!)

So far, so good, but this argument is guilty of the fallacy of composition, i.e., what is true of a part is falsely asserted to be true of the whole. From the (undoubtedly true) preposition that some Palestine supporters are Jew-haters, you erroneously conclude that this is true of all people who support Palestinian liberation. This fallacy can be seen more clearly in the following syllogism:

All mammals are cheese-lovers
Some cheese-lovers are mice
Therefore all mammals are mice

This argument is false, as the fact that a mammal loves cheese does not prove that that mammal is a mouse. Following exactly the same logic, it is possible for a person to be a Palestinian supporter without being a Jew-hater.

Otto, if you can find any flaws in my argument, please let me know. If you could leave out the obscure insults and incongruous Nazi references, that would be greatly appreciated.