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	<title>
	Comments on: Green Party Stirs Anti-Israel Election Acrimony	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Liat Kirby-Nagar		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-189375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liat Kirby-Nagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2016 03:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-189375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Loyalty is much more complex than passing tests for citizenship and coming under the spell of slogans such as &#039;One People, One Nation, One Destiny&#039; (it&#039;s somewhat disconcerting to learn that we need this banner displayed in 2001 after it&#039;s inception in 1901! - the increased nationalism via jingoism due to the Howard years was probably the influence there). It is, of course, more understandable, and fitting, to introduce the slogan at federation.

I agree there must be assimilation of peoples who choose to live in Australia, and the utmost respect must be paid to the laws of the country and its ideals while those laws and ideals are just and equitable. However, that does not mean that those who were born elsewhere or have strong ties to other places in the world must sever their attachment to and concern for those places. That is an unrealistic and unnecessary expectation and/or stipulation to make.  You say, &#039;even the UK immigrants&#039; - why are they any more special than other immigrants? I know you&#039;re implying they&#039;re not, but &#039;even&#039; inserts a note of difference here. UK immigrants are intensely connected to their countries of origin, no matter how many years in Australia, but it doesn&#039;t stop them from being worthwhile Australian citizens. The same goes for the Italians and Greeks who came here in so many numbers post Second World War.

Assimilation, too, does not mean leaving your own culture behind. Indeed, the rich diversity of cultures has contributed so much to make Australia what it is today. Without that it might have won the crown for most boring place on earth, despite its safety and opportunities. So let&#039;s realise that assimilation doesn&#039;t mean rigidity of thought and heart, all flowing in one direction only.

There is nothing wrong at all with dual citizenship while a citizen is participating in society, contributing his/her bit, and living as productive a life as possible. It is allowed by Australian law, as it should be. Rhetoric and slogans have nothing to do with loyalty and extreme notion of nationalism can produce bigotry, aggression and ultimately war.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loyalty is much more complex than passing tests for citizenship and coming under the spell of slogans such as &#8216;One People, One Nation, One Destiny&#8217; (it&#8217;s somewhat disconcerting to learn that we need this banner displayed in 2001 after it&#8217;s inception in 1901! &#8211; the increased nationalism via jingoism due to the Howard years was probably the influence there). It is, of course, more understandable, and fitting, to introduce the slogan at federation.</p>
<p>I agree there must be assimilation of peoples who choose to live in Australia, and the utmost respect must be paid to the laws of the country and its ideals while those laws and ideals are just and equitable. However, that does not mean that those who were born elsewhere or have strong ties to other places in the world must sever their attachment to and concern for those places. That is an unrealistic and unnecessary expectation and/or stipulation to make.  You say, &#8216;even the UK immigrants&#8217; &#8211; why are they any more special than other immigrants? I know you&#8217;re implying they&#8217;re not, but &#8216;even&#8217; inserts a note of difference here. UK immigrants are intensely connected to their countries of origin, no matter how many years in Australia, but it doesn&#8217;t stop them from being worthwhile Australian citizens. The same goes for the Italians and Greeks who came here in so many numbers post Second World War.</p>
<p>Assimilation, too, does not mean leaving your own culture behind. Indeed, the rich diversity of cultures has contributed so much to make Australia what it is today. Without that it might have won the crown for most boring place on earth, despite its safety and opportunities. So let&#8217;s realise that assimilation doesn&#8217;t mean rigidity of thought and heart, all flowing in one direction only.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong at all with dual citizenship while a citizen is participating in society, contributing his/her bit, and living as productive a life as possible. It is allowed by Australian law, as it should be. Rhetoric and slogans have nothing to do with loyalty and extreme notion of nationalism can produce bigotry, aggression and ultimately war.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Jackson		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-189296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Jackson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-189296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188936&quot;&gt;Liat Kirby-Nagar&lt;/a&gt;.

Once a migrant takes out citizenship as an Australian, after passing the various loyalty tests, they to are real Australians having abandoned the old country however if they cling to the old countries citizenship they are not a serious or real Australian, even the UK immigrants. 

On federation in 1901 the official Commonwealth slogan was &quot;One People, One Nation, One Destiny&quot;. It was displayed over St Kilda Rd, near the Arts Centre, in 2001 too. Its called assimilation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188936">Liat Kirby-Nagar</a>.</p>
<p>Once a migrant takes out citizenship as an Australian, after passing the various loyalty tests, they to are real Australians having abandoned the old country however if they cling to the old countries citizenship they are not a serious or real Australian, even the UK immigrants. </p>
<p>On federation in 1901 the official Commonwealth slogan was &#8220;One People, One Nation, One Destiny&#8221;. It was displayed over St Kilda Rd, near the Arts Centre, in 2001 too. Its called assimilation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liat Kirby-Nagar		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-189000</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liat Kirby-Nagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-189000</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Adrian,
My hometown, too, is Melbourne, although I am currently living in Brisbane. I only mention the fervent participation of Greens politicians in the Nakba day rally in Sydney because anybody who votes for a Greens candidate in any State should bear in mind their quite extreme anti-Israel policy as a Party. That factually incorrect pamphlets promulgating hatred and divisiveness against Israel should be printed, authorised by Lee Rhiannon and the Greens, and paid for with monies out of federal government funds meant for communicating with the electorate, is something that should be taken account of by all voters in all electorates. It makes the friendliness and support shown &#039;Steph&#039; by Jews in the Melbourne Ports electorate embarrassing and inappropriate. She is more than aware of Greens policy on Israel and discussed it at length when interviewed. And, as I said, declined public debate in the electorate due to the &#039;political&#039; (her word) inclusion of Zionist Victoria in the sponsorship nomenclature. That was her reason, not who else might or might not have been invited to participate.

So, in the Greens&#039; eyes, Zionist Victoria as an organisation is political, but the Palestinian rally on &#039;Nakba Day&#039; with printed material produced and distributed by the Greens isn&#039;t?

Wake up Jewish Greens supporters in Melbourne Ports.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrian,<br />
My hometown, too, is Melbourne, although I am currently living in Brisbane. I only mention the fervent participation of Greens politicians in the Nakba day rally in Sydney because anybody who votes for a Greens candidate in any State should bear in mind their quite extreme anti-Israel policy as a Party. That factually incorrect pamphlets promulgating hatred and divisiveness against Israel should be printed, authorised by Lee Rhiannon and the Greens, and paid for with monies out of federal government funds meant for communicating with the electorate, is something that should be taken account of by all voters in all electorates. It makes the friendliness and support shown &#8216;Steph&#8217; by Jews in the Melbourne Ports electorate embarrassing and inappropriate. She is more than aware of Greens policy on Israel and discussed it at length when interviewed. And, as I said, declined public debate in the electorate due to the &#8216;political&#8217; (her word) inclusion of Zionist Victoria in the sponsorship nomenclature. That was her reason, not who else might or might not have been invited to participate.</p>
<p>So, in the Greens&#8217; eyes, Zionist Victoria as an organisation is political, but the Palestinian rally on &#8216;Nakba Day&#8217; with printed material produced and distributed by the Greens isn&#8217;t?</p>
<p>Wake up Jewish Greens supporters in Melbourne Ports.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liat Kirby-Nagar		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liat Kirby-Nagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, Adrian, if a real Australian is one who only has loyalty to Australia and no other country, the migrant-Australian population in its full diversity would be found wanting, for as much as they love and appreciate Australia they also have well ensconced in their hearts the countries they came from, viz Greece, Italy, et al. And that is a perfectly normal thing. Also on your reckoning, historically speaking, all those true blue Aussies who fought for King and country, volunteering in enthusiasm for the &#039;home&#039; country England in World War I, were also lacking in loyalty. Perhaps the only real Australians are the Indigenous people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Adrian, if a real Australian is one who only has loyalty to Australia and no other country, the migrant-Australian population in its full diversity would be found wanting, for as much as they love and appreciate Australia they also have well ensconced in their hearts the countries they came from, viz Greece, Italy, et al. And that is a perfectly normal thing. Also on your reckoning, historically speaking, all those true blue Aussies who fought for King and country, volunteering in enthusiasm for the &#8216;home&#8217; country England in World War I, were also lacking in loyalty. Perhaps the only real Australians are the Indigenous people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Jackson		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188903</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Jackson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2016 05:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188903</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188739&quot;&gt;john nemesh&lt;/a&gt;.

Well John you don&#039;t know much about me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188739">john nemesh</a>.</p>
<p>Well John you don&#8217;t know much about me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Jackson		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Jackson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2016 05:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188831&quot;&gt;Liat Kirby-Nagar&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes I definitely have Michael Danby on my radar or as an former infantry officer &quot;in my sights&quot; politically is more apt, as my lazy local MHR and it is not bias its just fact. Incidentally I am in Melbourne not Sydney.

Also I praise the two former ALP Melbourne Ports MHRs on 12 Aug 16 below so it not bias, and as I was not living in Melbourne Ports as a voter before 1980 I cant comment on local MHR further back. 

I am aware the candidate Steph withdrew from a forum but only three candidates (Lab, Lib, Grn) were invited by the organizers. This is hardly representative of the eight candidate on Melbourne Ports who stood in 2016. 

The forum was really a vehicle to try and promote Michael Danby in my view.

This forgetfulness, to invite all candidates, happened at some other forums including one at the Anglican Church in Acland St, St Kilda, a few election ago too. I remember, as I attended that one, only four (Lab, Lib, Grn, Dem) of eight candidate were invited. 

Lets face it most attendee at any pre election forums are supporters of candidates anyway and the media mostly do not even attend them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188831">Liat Kirby-Nagar</a>.</p>
<p>Yes I definitely have Michael Danby on my radar or as an former infantry officer &#8220;in my sights&#8221; politically is more apt, as my lazy local MHR and it is not bias its just fact. Incidentally I am in Melbourne not Sydney.</p>
<p>Also I praise the two former ALP Melbourne Ports MHRs on 12 Aug 16 below so it not bias, and as I was not living in Melbourne Ports as a voter before 1980 I cant comment on local MHR further back. </p>
<p>I am aware the candidate Steph withdrew from a forum but only three candidates (Lab, Lib, Grn) were invited by the organizers. This is hardly representative of the eight candidate on Melbourne Ports who stood in 2016. </p>
<p>The forum was really a vehicle to try and promote Michael Danby in my view.</p>
<p>This forgetfulness, to invite all candidates, happened at some other forums including one at the Anglican Church in Acland St, St Kilda, a few election ago too. I remember, as I attended that one, only four (Lab, Lib, Grn, Dem) of eight candidate were invited. </p>
<p>Lets face it most attendee at any pre election forums are supporters of candidates anyway and the media mostly do not even attend them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Jackson		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Jackson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188823&quot;&gt;Simon Tatz&lt;/a&gt;.

Well said Simon. 

I for the first time voted 1 for Steph (Greens) but put Michael (Labor) last so Owen (Lib) would eventually end up with my vote after the preference distribution.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188823">Simon Tatz</a>.</p>
<p>Well said Simon. </p>
<p>I for the first time voted 1 for Steph (Greens) but put Michael (Labor) last so Owen (Lib) would eventually end up with my vote after the preference distribution.</p>
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		By: Liat Kirby-Nagar		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188831</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liat Kirby-Nagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188831</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds like you have Michael Danby well and truly on your radar, Adrian! His gaffs could have been worse, surely, over those twenty years. You&#039;re clutching at straws.
and
Simon Tatz, it&#039;s divisive, offensive politics the Greens are playing, with their tax-payer funded, pro-Palestinian leaflets (factually inaccurate) distributed at the Sydney Nakba gathering on a Sunday a few months ago, and candidate &#039;Steph&#039; pulling out of that public debate pre-election because of the taint of Zionism Vic. 

Neither of you have to support Israel, or like Israel for that matter. You could, however, try to rise a little above your bias to become less petty.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like you have Michael Danby well and truly on your radar, Adrian! His gaffs could have been worse, surely, over those twenty years. You&#8217;re clutching at straws.<br />
and<br />
Simon Tatz, it&#8217;s divisive, offensive politics the Greens are playing, with their tax-payer funded, pro-Palestinian leaflets (factually inaccurate) distributed at the Sydney Nakba gathering on a Sunday a few months ago, and candidate &#8216;Steph&#8217; pulling out of that public debate pre-election because of the taint of Zionism Vic. </p>
<p>Neither of you have to support Israel, or like Israel for that matter. You could, however, try to rise a little above your bias to become less petty.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Simon Tatz		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Tatz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2016 02:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a Jew and a Greens member who supported Steph, Mr Danby&#039;s comments are deplorable. Melbourne Ports voters were not voting on Israel, they were election a local member, and given that only about 28% actually voted for Danby, it seems he wasn&#039;t considered the most appropriate, and relied on Greens preferences to retain his seat.

Danby likes to cite other Greens in other jurisdictions about Israel, yet says nothing about his former factional colleague Bob Carr, who&#039;s ugly comments about the so-called &#039;Jewish lobby&#039; were far more offensive, coming from Labor&#039;s Foreign Affairs minister. And his views hardly align with the Labor Left, whose comments are very similar to those he attributes to some Greens.

Let&#039;s be honest here, Danby has no influence over Labor&#039;s foreign policy and he surely cannot support Labor&#039;s platform that East Jerusalem in &#039;occupied territory&#039;. His attack on the Greens was a desperate play by a local member whose support drops each election. Playing the Israel card might have got him returned, but it was divisive, offensive politics that created animosity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Jew and a Greens member who supported Steph, Mr Danby&#8217;s comments are deplorable. Melbourne Ports voters were not voting on Israel, they were election a local member, and given that only about 28% actually voted for Danby, it seems he wasn&#8217;t considered the most appropriate, and relied on Greens preferences to retain his seat.</p>
<p>Danby likes to cite other Greens in other jurisdictions about Israel, yet says nothing about his former factional colleague Bob Carr, who&#8217;s ugly comments about the so-called &#8216;Jewish lobby&#8217; were far more offensive, coming from Labor&#8217;s Foreign Affairs minister. And his views hardly align with the Labor Left, whose comments are very similar to those he attributes to some Greens.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be honest here, Danby has no influence over Labor&#8217;s foreign policy and he surely cannot support Labor&#8217;s platform that East Jerusalem in &#8216;occupied territory&#8217;. His attack on the Greens was a desperate play by a local member whose support drops each election. Playing the Israel card might have got him returned, but it was divisive, offensive politics that created animosity.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Jackson		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/green-party-stirs-anti-israel-election-acrimony/#comment-188821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Jackson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2016 01:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=65446#comment-188821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Michael Danby has been involved in some PR mishaps over the last 20 years. 

A few elections ago he was pictured in MCV (a Gay newspaper) standing next to a well know St Kilda cabaret transsexual in a full page photo in the back page. At the next election the identical photo was re-published in MCV but unfortunately the poor woman has died a year earlier but Michael had not checked with her obviously. This disaster was highlighted by some young bloke as St Kilda Town Hall at a meet the candidates forum wich was very embarrassing for Mr Danby and I witnesses it. 

Then there was the fridge magnet calendar with school holidays shown, unfortunately they were NSW holidays (different dates) not Victoria&#039;s. 

In another bit of PR ANZAC Day had a date problem and other religious holidays were added to the calendar but Easter Sunday was omitted.

Attention to detail can be problem with Mr Danby.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Danby has been involved in some PR mishaps over the last 20 years. </p>
<p>A few elections ago he was pictured in MCV (a Gay newspaper) standing next to a well know St Kilda cabaret transsexual in a full page photo in the back page. At the next election the identical photo was re-published in MCV but unfortunately the poor woman has died a year earlier but Michael had not checked with her obviously. This disaster was highlighted by some young bloke as St Kilda Town Hall at a meet the candidates forum wich was very embarrassing for Mr Danby and I witnesses it. </p>
<p>Then there was the fridge magnet calendar with school holidays shown, unfortunately they were NSW holidays (different dates) not Victoria&#8217;s. </p>
<p>In another bit of PR ANZAC Day had a date problem and other religious holidays were added to the calendar but Easter Sunday was omitted.</p>
<p>Attention to detail can be problem with Mr Danby.</p>
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