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	Comments on: Democracy in Israel: Confronting BDS from Home	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Otto Waldmann		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/democracy-in-israel-confronting-bds-from-home/#comment-8794</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otto Waldmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=17596#comment-8794</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is a strange quality in some to object to certain notions regradless of the absurdities with which they &quot;enhance&quot; their reflex reactions.
The mere word &quot;settler&quot; seems to ellicit reactions from certain Jews, reactions which, at a second reading by the &quot;authors&quot; chances are that they may conclude that it would serve their reputation much better if they stayed stumm.

To pitch the sincerity of care for the settlers and the risks they are exposed to to the &quot;legitimacy&quot; of the palestinians to &quot;provide&quot; the reasons for concern, expose the settlers to the risks assumed, and, at the same time intimate that the same risk providing palestinians have a......MORAL right to expose the settlers to the palestinian perrils, and conclude a MORAL ascenfance of the &quot;oppreessed&quot; palestinians, is not just the height of incongruity, but the lowest level of rational demand for ethical values.
To cliam to be the protector of an intollerant mob as a virtue of no less than &quot;democratic&quot; sets of value, to protect the worst purveyors of boycotts against Jews, whwrever they are, in the name of.... justice against BOYCOTTS which target the boycotters themselves,is not just absurd or disingenious is tantamount to being part of the greater campaign of hate of Jews, REGARDLESS whether they are NIF supporters or not.
want the same medicine as your own ??!! I am fighting those Jew haters who, in actual fact, include in their indiscriminate hatred also the Jewish supporters of NIF !
Nathan Czerny, on the other hand, lends his support to the criminal indiscriminate mob. If I were a cynical bastard I&#039;d support the palestinians as well, in the same manner Nathan does, because I DOKNOW TOO WELL that the same palestinians will get Nathan by the beitzim before they&#039;d come after me, simply because I&#039;d be prepared for them, whereas Nathan is still wallowing in his pro-palestinian selfdestructive haloymes. At least, while you can still can,give the visiting Laceys my best...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a strange quality in some to object to certain notions regradless of the absurdities with which they &#8220;enhance&#8221; their reflex reactions.<br />
The mere word &#8220;settler&#8221; seems to ellicit reactions from certain Jews, reactions which, at a second reading by the &#8220;authors&#8221; chances are that they may conclude that it would serve their reputation much better if they stayed stumm.</p>
<p>To pitch the sincerity of care for the settlers and the risks they are exposed to to the &#8220;legitimacy&#8221; of the palestinians to &#8220;provide&#8221; the reasons for concern, expose the settlers to the risks assumed, and, at the same time intimate that the same risk providing palestinians have a&#8230;&#8230;MORAL right to expose the settlers to the palestinian perrils, and conclude a MORAL ascenfance of the &#8220;oppreessed&#8221; palestinians, is not just the height of incongruity, but the lowest level of rational demand for ethical values.<br />
To cliam to be the protector of an intollerant mob as a virtue of no less than &#8220;democratic&#8221; sets of value, to protect the worst purveyors of boycotts against Jews, whwrever they are, in the name of&#8230;. justice against BOYCOTTS which target the boycotters themselves,is not just absurd or disingenious is tantamount to being part of the greater campaign of hate of Jews, REGARDLESS whether they are NIF supporters or not.<br />
want the same medicine as your own ??!! I am fighting those Jew haters who, in actual fact, include in their indiscriminate hatred also the Jewish supporters of NIF !<br />
Nathan Czerny, on the other hand, lends his support to the criminal indiscriminate mob. If I were a cynical bastard I&#8217;d support the palestinians as well, in the same manner Nathan does, because I DOKNOW TOO WELL that the same palestinians will get Nathan by the beitzim before they&#8217;d come after me, simply because I&#8217;d be prepared for them, whereas Nathan is still wallowing in his pro-palestinian selfdestructive haloymes. At least, while you can still can,give the visiting Laceys my best&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nathan Cherny		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/democracy-in-israel-confronting-bds-from-home/#comment-8789</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Cherny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=17596#comment-8789</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I appreciate Mr Leibler may prefer not to recognize the difference between the State of Israel and the Administered Territories, but Israeli and international law does.

There is a material difference between divestment from The State of Israel and divestment from projects that promote the development of the settlement infrastructure and occupation in the administered West Bank and the annexed area of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. 

Israelis who chose to live outside the borders of the State in the administered territories (this is the legal tem used by the Government), do so at there own risk.. and there are risks involved besides the security issues. These are disputed territories the fate of which is yet to be determined in the ongoing dialogue between The State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

In any future arrangement some, and possibly many towns and outposts will ether need to be evacuated or the residents may be given the opportunity to choose between Palestinan citizenship or relocating to the State of Israel. 

Living in a politically disputed territory has economic risks as well, among those are the risks of facing economic hardship of the political action of people who see oppose the ongoing occupation/administration for various reasons. some hostile others absolutely patriotic.

Though I don’t personally advocate this approach, I recognize that it is not an unreasonable form of political expression. Last week, we , and millions of other Israeli citizens boycotted the manufacturers and distributors of cottage cheese for substantial and legitimate reasons.
The future of a demographically viable and just State of Israel is no less of a compelling reason 

Indeed, there are many absolutely loyal Zionists, me included, who think that the settlement movement is a poison to the whole Zionist enterprise and that, other than our external enemies, it is the single most dangerous threat to the future of the state. This is not an opinion of the radial left, this is a centrist approach that is supported by the major opposition parties.

Nathan Cherny
Norman Levan Chair of Humanistic Medicine
Director, Cancer Pain and Palliative Medicine Service
Shaare Zedek Medical Center]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate Mr Leibler may prefer not to recognize the difference between the State of Israel and the Administered Territories, but Israeli and international law does.</p>
<p>There is a material difference between divestment from The State of Israel and divestment from projects that promote the development of the settlement infrastructure and occupation in the administered West Bank and the annexed area of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. </p>
<p>Israelis who chose to live outside the borders of the State in the administered territories (this is the legal tem used by the Government), do so at there own risk.. and there are risks involved besides the security issues. These are disputed territories the fate of which is yet to be determined in the ongoing dialogue between The State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority.</p>
<p>In any future arrangement some, and possibly many towns and outposts will ether need to be evacuated or the residents may be given the opportunity to choose between Palestinan citizenship or relocating to the State of Israel. </p>
<p>Living in a politically disputed territory has economic risks as well, among those are the risks of facing economic hardship of the political action of people who see oppose the ongoing occupation/administration for various reasons. some hostile others absolutely patriotic.</p>
<p>Though I don’t personally advocate this approach, I recognize that it is not an unreasonable form of political expression. Last week, we , and millions of other Israeli citizens boycotted the manufacturers and distributors of cottage cheese for substantial and legitimate reasons.<br />
The future of a demographically viable and just State of Israel is no less of a compelling reason </p>
<p>Indeed, there are many absolutely loyal Zionists, me included, who think that the settlement movement is a poison to the whole Zionist enterprise and that, other than our external enemies, it is the single most dangerous threat to the future of the state. This is not an opinion of the radial left, this is a centrist approach that is supported by the major opposition parties.</p>
<p>Nathan Cherny<br />
Norman Levan Chair of Humanistic Medicine<br />
Director, Cancer Pain and Palliative Medicine Service<br />
Shaare Zedek Medical Center</p>
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		<title>
		By: Otto Waldmann		</title>
		<link>https://www.jwire.com.au/democracy-in-israel-confronting-bds-from-home/#comment-8781</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otto Waldmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jwire.com.au/?p=17596#comment-8781</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[SIMPLY SUPERLATIVE !!!

What a clear and comprehensive presentation. Most inspiring !

In complete agrement,I would add that the variables of democracies are open for comparissons.In consideration of history, geopolitics and even fiscal culations, not to mention security concerns, all known democracies contain exclusive traits. 
An  unrealistic demand for a certain unrealistic  quality of democrcay within Israel cannot be an argumentative pretext for the denial of geopolitical and security specifics defining the EXISTENTIAL necessities for Israel !!! Yet, this is precisely what we find time and again at the farcical, vociferous platform of these professional idiots endowed with tireless and strident mouths in lieu of brains.
The reality of boycots against Israel must be seen as being a fundamental feature of the larger strategy for the deligitisation of Israel. All boycots against Israeli realities,and that INCLUDES the Jewish settlements, are organically a component of the greater WAR waged against Israel on ALL FRONTS.
Only tonite I encountered a complete cretin who argued that it is ACCEPTABLE to boycot the settlers, accepting that palestinians not only agree with it but that would be their only target of boycot....
Isi is right that we would find Jews, who in appearance and general behaviour seem normal, to fall victims of misguided,but most certainly vicious anti Israel ideologies. In the case of the current legislation, the most concerning reality is that we have arrived at the juncture of facing seriously twisted minds within the conventionally termed Jewish community. This so called post Zionist era is the result of drastic departures by a  number of Israelis and also Jews outside Israel, from reliable Judaic ethics.This is the crux of the problems. Jews concocting highly deleterious &quot;logical&quot;constructs which replace the very fundamentals of Zionism,Judaism in general,the very existence of Israel in particular. But they do have the seriously ill hutzpa to call themselves...Zionists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SIMPLY SUPERLATIVE !!!</p>
<p>What a clear and comprehensive presentation. Most inspiring !</p>
<p>In complete agrement,I would add that the variables of democracies are open for comparissons.In consideration of history, geopolitics and even fiscal culations, not to mention security concerns, all known democracies contain exclusive traits.<br />
An  unrealistic demand for a certain unrealistic  quality of democrcay within Israel cannot be an argumentative pretext for the denial of geopolitical and security specifics defining the EXISTENTIAL necessities for Israel !!! Yet, this is precisely what we find time and again at the farcical, vociferous platform of these professional idiots endowed with tireless and strident mouths in lieu of brains.<br />
The reality of boycots against Israel must be seen as being a fundamental feature of the larger strategy for the deligitisation of Israel. All boycots against Israeli realities,and that INCLUDES the Jewish settlements, are organically a component of the greater WAR waged against Israel on ALL FRONTS.<br />
Only tonite I encountered a complete cretin who argued that it is ACCEPTABLE to boycot the settlers, accepting that palestinians not only agree with it but that would be their only target of boycot&#8230;.<br />
Isi is right that we would find Jews, who in appearance and general behaviour seem normal, to fall victims of misguided,but most certainly vicious anti Israel ideologies. In the case of the current legislation, the most concerning reality is that we have arrived at the juncture of facing seriously twisted minds within the conventionally termed Jewish community. This so called post Zionist era is the result of drastic departures by a  number of Israelis and also Jews outside Israel, from reliable Judaic ethics.This is the crux of the problems. Jews concocting highly deleterious &#8220;logical&#8221;constructs which replace the very fundamentals of Zionism,Judaism in general,the very existence of Israel in particular. But they do have the seriously ill hutzpa to call themselves&#8230;Zionists.</p>
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